Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

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Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
Sometimes the truth has been right in front of your face all along. All my life I have never paid attention to the fact that on a clear day driving past the south shore of Oahu you can effortlessly see the neighboring islands Molokai and Maui. "ho that's coo" you think. "Look how clear the sky stay". Haha. Wish I had a picture for you guys.

I could actually see the waves crashing against the shoreline of Molokai all the way from Sandy Beach on Oahu. All the way down to the shoreline. "ho that's Coo bra". "Yups it's coo" until you realize that Molokai is 66 miles away, which would put the shoreline 2900 feet beneath the horizon on a convex Earth. And behind my view of Molokai was Maui, with a clear view of the North Shore. I've driven across that North Shore; I know how high it is above sea level. From my view, I was seeing the coast all the way down to the shoreline. According to the Convex Earth, that should have been 9000 feet beneath the horizon since Maui is 116 miles away. No one has ever stopped to think about that. Lol guess we are all too busy enjoying the sunshine.

It's funny I have watched videos on youtube with fuzzy cameras struggling to see things 6 miles away, mega zoom cameras catching glimpses  through polluted skies of things 20 miles away, and reading stories of lighthouses being seen from 35 miles away. Yet here with my own naked eye is a shoreline 116 miles away.

Refract, refraction is all they can say. Refraction my ass! There was no wavering or undulation like mirages.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
I took a picture but my cell phone has such utterly horrible quality, it is one of those 15 dollar pay as you go phones. I also can't text myself the photos. Lol.

Would love to one day buy a high quality zoom camera or telescope and check it out.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Big Cave
In reply to this post by Primalredemption
Primalredemption wrote
Sometimes the truth has been right in front of your face all along. All my life I have never paid attention to the fact that on a clear day driving past the south shore of Oahu you can effortlessly see the neighboring islands Molokai and Maui. "ho that's coo" you think. "Look how clear the sky stay". Haha. Wish I had a picture for you guys.

I could actually see the waves crashing against the shoreline of Molokai all the way from Sandy Beach on Oahu. All the way down to the shoreline. "ho that's Coo bra". "Yups it's coo" until you realize that Molokai is 66 miles away, which would put the shoreline 2900 feet beneath the horizon on a convex Earth. And behind my view of Molokai was Maui, with a clear view of the North Shore. I've driven across that North Shore; I know how high it is above sea level. From my view, I was seeing the coast all the way down to the shoreline. According to the Convex Earth, that should have been 9000 feet beneath the horizon since Maui is 116 miles away. No one has ever stopped to think about that. Lol guess we are all too busy enjoying the sunshine.

It's funny I have watched videos on youtube with fuzzy cameras struggling to see things 6 miles away, mega zoom cameras catching glimpses  through polluted skies of things 20 miles away, and reading stories of lighthouses being seen from 35 miles away. Yet here with my own naked eye is a shoreline 116 miles away.

Refract, refraction is all they can say. Refraction my ass! There was no wavering or undulation like mirages.
If Molokai is 66 miles away and in a convex earth, it should be 2900 feet beneath the horizon and beyond it is Maui, which would be 9000 feet beneath the horizon since it is 116 miles away, but you can see both Molokai and Maui with your naked eye instead of both hidden beneath the horizon, but have you asked yourself that if you see both more or less flat at your eye-level, doesn't this gives you the feeling and thinking that the earth is 'flat'?

Because if convex earth would have both Molokai and Maui 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively beneath the horizon, then for a concave earth, both Molokai and Maui should be 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively above your eye-level (which is the flat horizon) instead of 'flat' as far as your eyes can see, isn't it?

Are we missing something here?
x2m
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

x2m
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In reply to this post by Primalredemption
You forgot to mention how HIGH (from sea level) you were in your car driving on the south shore of Oahu, or did I missed something?
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
In reply to this post by x2m
I was about 5 feet above sea level for the most part. But whether 5 or 50 it doesn't really matter when you are seeing something that should be 7 8 or 9 thousand feet beneath the ocean!

"but have you asked yourself that if you see both more or less flat at your eye-level, doesn't this gives you the feeling and thinking that the earth is 'flat'?

Because if convex earth would have both Molokai and Maui 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively beneath the horizon, then for a concave earth, both Molokai and Maui should be 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively above your eye-level (which is the flat horizon) instead of 'flat' as far as your eyes can see, isn't it? "

Good points you have raised. Man has obviously been battling with this for millennia for good reason. One can believe the Flat Earth based solely on vision but the theory has so many short comings such as the pole stars conundrum and flight travel times in the southern hemisphere. Since light has been proven to bend upward then light traveling "level" with the horizon and "toward the ground" in a concave Earth would then bend with and match the concave curvature until it reaches you in which case it will arrive straight or inclining upward, thus making the object which projected the light appear level or lower, as the case with ships that have their hull "cut off".
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
Wow! everyone morning I wake up and have this same experience. I live on a mountain and so when I drive out and see the horizon it is TOWERING thousands of feet above high rises and tall buildings. I get the impression I am being swallowed up in a massive bowl of high water.  

How can the water be thousands of feet higher than the sky scrapers? Subconsciously I am picking up on the fact that the horizon is not one smidgen lower at that altitude than it is at ground level. Not one hundredth of one degree lower.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Big Cave
In reply to this post by Primalredemption
Primalredemption wrote
I was about 5 feet above sea level for the most part. But whether 5 or 50 it doesn't really matter when you are seeing something that should be 7 8 or 9 thousand feet beneath the ocean!

"but have you asked yourself that if you see both more or less flat at your eye-level, doesn't this gives you the feeling and thinking that the earth is 'flat'?

Because if convex earth would have both Molokai and Maui 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively beneath the horizon, then for a concave earth, both Molokai and Maui should be 2900 feet and 9000 feet respectively above your eye-level (which is the flat horizon) instead of 'flat' as far as your eyes can see, isn't it? "

Good points you have raised. Man has obviously been battling with this for millennia for good reason. One can believe the Flat Earth based solely on vision but the theory has so many short comings such as the pole stars conundrum and flight travel times in the southern hemisphere. Since light has been proven to bend upward then light traveling "level" with the horizon and "toward the ground" in a concave Earth would then bend with and match the concave curvature until it reaches you in which case it will arrive straight or inclining upward, thus making the object which projected the light appear level or lower, as the case with ships that have their hull "cut off".
You've to give truth the justice it deserves, if not just for the purity of your soul.

Just citing 'light bends' does not cut it at all. Why light bends and to what degree light bends must be discussed and determined. Typically, even with bendy light, in a perfect atmosphere and if the earth is spherical, you can only see 3 miles into the distance. With atmospheric refraction and surface temperature, the distance can be vastly increased. Also, if you were gazing at Maui and Molokai just slightly after sunset, you can see much much further, which is what people has been experiencing.

So, you may like to re-visit that location at different times of the day and at different days and take another look to see if you can see Maui or not. If you keep seeing Maui all the time, during different times of the day and on different days, then you can come to some conclusion about the curvature of the earth.

Until you put your vision to the strictest of tests, you cannot come to any definitive conclusion.....because Maui is really really far away from your vantage point and if light bends with the concave curvature of the earth and if what you saw of Maui is the result of the bendy light following the concave curvature of the earth, then everyone throughout history who has seen the horizon should be able to see 116 miles away and more, if unblocked. We need to determine at what distance the bendy light curves upwards into the sky that limits the viewing reach of human sight. The bendy light, according to Lord Steven, curves more than the curvature of the earth and hence, one can see beyond the north pole (Polaris) and south pole (Sigma Octantis) when one is at the equator or near to it.

The question to ask is if one is at the Tropics of Cancer/Capricorn or higher in latitude, then gazing up at night, one should be able to see right to the other of the celestial sphere because of the bendy light, way beyond the poles and towards where the sun is, when you're having night on your side of the celestial sphere.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
"So, you may like to re-visit that location at different times of the day and at different days and take another look to see if you can see Maui or not. If you keep seeing Maui all the time, during different times of the day and on different days, then you can come to some conclusion about the curvature of the earth."

I have, all my life, different times of day and seasons. It is always the same scene and therefore is not caused by atmospheric refraction. The limiting factor is the clarity of the air.


"Until you put your vision to the strictest of tests, you cannot come to any definitive conclusion.....because Maui is really really far away from your vantage point and if light bends with the concave curvature of the earth and if what you saw of Maui is the result of the bendy light following the concave curvature of the earth, then everyone throughout history who has seen the horizon should be able to see 116 miles away and more, if unblocked."

The clearness of the air is always the limiting factor. People throughout history have seen 116 miles and beyond. It all depends on the air clearness. I will state this to rebuke your point however: in distances less that 116 miles with clear air and minimal refraction no one has ever not seen objects due to them "sinking beneath the horizon". Put another way, I have never not seen Molokai or maui on a clear day.

"We need to determine at what distance the bendy light curves upwards into the sky that limits the viewing reach of human sight. The bendy light, according to Lord Steven, curves more than the curvature of the earth and hence, one can see beyond the north pole (Polaris) and south pole (Sigma Octantis) when one is at the equator or near to it."

I will leave this to Steven as he would have the most accurate estimate. My guess would be termination at around 1000 miles.

"The question to ask is if one is at the Tropics of Cancer/Capricorn or higher in latitude, then gazing up at night, one should be able to see right to the other of the celestial sphere because of the bendy light, way beyond the poles and towards where the sun is, when you're having night on your side of the celestial sphere."

No because the sun light is not the same distance from the stars you would be seeing and its light curves into land and terminates before reaching you.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Steve
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big cave likes to try to confuse things it seems. hmmm
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Big Cave
Steve wrote
big cave likes to try to confuse things it seems. hmmm
Our friends and bros here, I'm sure are of reasonably high intelligence and filled with the holy spirit not to be so easily confused, Lord Steven.

Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Big Cave
In reply to this post by Primalredemption
Primalredemption wrote
Big Cave:
"The question to ask is if one is at the Tropics of Cancer/Capricorn or higher in latitude, then gazing up at night, one should be able to see right to the other of the celestial sphere because of the bendy light, way beyond the poles and towards where the sun is, when you're having night on your side of the celestial sphere."

Primalredemption:
No because the sun light is not the same distance from the stars you would be seeing and its light curves into land and terminates before reaching you.
What I'm trying to put across is this. If observer at A can see beyond the North Pole, then the observer at C will see right through to the other side of the Celestial Sphere. This means he will be seeing stars and constellations that should be hidden from him since the stars and constellations rotate out of sight from him in approximately 12 hours of night. As shown in the diagram I drew, hope it makes more sense.



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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Steve
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well that's something you can find out with some research seeing how many stars you can see at different latitudes. I have a feeling that just because your periphery of the CS may seem to get close to the sun, does not mean you should see daylight. Your trajectory curves show how the night sky tucks over the sun's trajectory.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Big Cave
Steve wrote
well that's something you can find out with some research seeing how many stars you can see at different latitudes. I have a feeling that just because your periphery of the CS may seem to get close to the sun, does not mean you should see daylight. Your trajectory curves show how the night sky tucks over the sun's trajectory.
I get it. I've been gazing at the stars and constellations almost nightly, but because of light pollution (meaning glare from street lights and urban lights), it is difficult to see many stars, which is why many people nowadays are desensitized to the majesty of the night sky. In days bygone, I could see the milky way and how it travese Vega, Deneb and Altair during the month of July, etc, etc.

I've the software stellarium as well as the android app Google Sky Map, which I can turn off GPS and feed in my own latitudes to observe the constellations as they travel across the night sky, but it will take loads of patience and a big monitor to see the whole sky and also, I will need to trust the software, but there is no other way, since it is close to impossible to observe the night sky unless I'm in a secluded high ground away from urban lights and then the various latitudes, I would need to fly all over the world, which makes this a zero probability for me.....so I'll have to rely on the software stellarium to point me to the sky nightly.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

GMan
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

GMan
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Steve
Administrator
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airplanes are constantly adjusting altitude. they would only have to adjust 1 tenth of a degree for every 10 km. but there is turbulence, shifting winds changing barometric pressure, which means the pilot is constantly adjusting the altitude.

you fucking troll.

earth is not flat.

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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Steve
Administrator
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gman you are like a petulant little bitch who keeps changing their minds to suit their desires.

the main reason you cannot accept concave earth reality is because you are one of the most pompous prideful men I've ever come across on the internet, hence you cannot accept me as Lord.

The bigger you are the harder you will fall.

I am opposed to you.
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

GMan
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IrOnMaN
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

wildheretic
In reply to this post by Big Cave
Having finished writing and researching two more articles on satellites I have become slightly more knowledgeable on light reception.

Basically, the six factors affecting horizon distance are 1. time of day, 2. day of year, 3. over water, 4. amplification of light source (power), 5. frequency of light, 6. sensitivity of the light receiver.

The last three are very interesting as follows: there is a distinct possibility that it is not the bend of light that varies with these factors, but that lower frequencies can be more readily detected.

With AM radio they even say that these waves travel further at night due to less charge in the atmosphere during the night. This points to the first three varying factors, time of day, day of year, and over water, vary the electric charge of the atmosphere to some degree. Now the question is, does this electric charge bend the light more to create a shorter horizon, or does it merely create a denser fog through which the light finds it harder to penetrate? Light has been shown to bend upwards though, so I would say it is likely a combination of both. Steven has a video replicating the horizon by just adding a fog effect on one of his videos.

The last three varying factors are nothing to do with the charged atmosphere but the light source, light, and receiver only. It could well be that the "amount of bend of light" is merely indicative as to the last three factors, especially the sensitivity of the light receiver. Here is one idea that may or may not be true: Think of it like the circles of one half of a magnetic field. As you move closer to the magnetic field source, the lines become increasingly bent and the intensity stronger, therefore if the light receiver isn't very sensitive, it needs to be very close to the source to perceive the same bend as a sensitive receiver does far away. This analogy explains both the "bend" of the concave Earthers and the "fog" of the flat Earther guys. The truth is, that it is both.

Does that make sense?





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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Primalredemption
Some very good theories Wild Heretic. My question I have been wanting to ask you about bendy light is: if the light bends more throughout various times of the day why does the curvature of the horizon not follow? Or is it actually fluctuation but we are unable to perceive the change because everything else is shifting along with the bend?
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Re: Had a clear view of Maui today: how can anyone believe the Earth is Convex?

Steve
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In reply to this post by wildheretic
wildheretic wrote
As you move closer to the magnetic field source, the lines become increasingly bent and the intensity stronger, ...
yes, that's what I think as well. the index of refraction increases with the intensity of the magnetic field, especially in the plasma of space iirc.
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