How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

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How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
This post was updated on .
The answer is in the shadow. The shadow never lies.

Ok, let's get into it.

On the Summer solstice (21-Jun)
----------------------------------------

a) Your latitude is above 23.5 north (i.e. above the Tropics of Cancer)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the NORTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards north-east or north-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the SOUTH.

b) Your latitude is between 23.5 north (i.e. the Tropics of Cancer) and 23.5 south (i.e. the tropics of Capricorn)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the SOUTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards south-east or south-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be the same, i.e. towards the SOUTH.

c) Your latitude is below 23.5 south (i.e. below the Tropic of Capricorn)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the SOUTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards south-east or south-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave,at solar noon, a shadow will be towards the NORTH.

On the Winter solstice (21-Dec)
--------------------------------------

a) Your latitude is above 23.5 north (i.e. above the Tropics of Cancer)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the NORTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards north-east or north-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the SOUTH.

b) Your latitude is between 23.5 north (i.e. the Tropics of Cancer) and 23.5 south (i.e. the tropics of Capricorn)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the NORTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards north-east or north-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be the same, i.e. towards the NORTH.

c) Your latitude is below 23.5 south (i.e. below the Tropic of Capricorn)
If the Earth is convex, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the SOUTH. At other times of that day, it will be towards south-east or south-west, depending on whether in the morning or afternoon.
If the Earth is concave, at solar noon, a shadow cast will be towards the NORTH.


This is regardless if the light bends. For even if the light bends, it is obvious the light rays are hitting us parallel, or if it is diffused, there cannot be distinct shadows casted. Also, light cannot bends until the direction of the shadow turns 180 degrees the other direction, so we can discount this, IMO.

This should prove whether the EARTH is Convex or Concave once and for all.

From one of the comments on this site: https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/nasa/measuringuniverse/measure_the_solarsystem/a/a-flat-earth



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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
This post was updated on .
At the Summer solstice and Winter solstice, for latitudes above and below the Tropics (Cancer and Capricorn), the shadows cast are in opposing directions for the convex and concave Earth.

Test it out yourself and feel the truth. The shadows don't lie!


The following shadow directions are true in a convex Earth.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/06/19/measure-the-tilt-of-the-earth-on-the-solstice-this-wednesday/
Also, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path



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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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In reply to this post by Big Cave
your shadow reasoning is not correct.
x2m
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

x2m
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In reply to this post by Big Cave
'A plane of earth solar system orbit'...A plane?? Really a plane???
The sun must be moving very fast in the milky way galaxy in 3 directions and earth must follow that complex path (not mentioning the motion of the galaxy it self) in something similar to a spiral path at same speed (beside the spinning speed).
That 'plane' must be very much curved and waving in spiral motion.
Maybe we can only speak about plane in a geocentric model convex model not in a heliocentric (that is not really heliocentric, of course) model
But..
..in Concave Earth, don't forget about glass sky, curved light and a much closer little sun with a significant motion with eletromagnetic power that bends light sometimes stronger than others and where light expands all inside the sphere Bubble Concave Earth. It is not so easy to compare so easily shadows in Concave Earth with shadows in the mainstream model where you can never forget the significant motion of the sun in and around the so called galaxy (Milky Way)
The real Milky Way in Concave Earth is important to change the path of the Sun and must then have also an very powerful eletromagnetic influence.
Before argumenting about light and shadows, it is prudent to understand if eletromagnetic waves (and light) can work without ether (essencial in Concave earth). And maybe they only work with ether  motion...
Remeber that the mainstream model cannot be dissociated with the Einstein abolishing ether and with the fixed speed of light
Good topics here:
http://debunkingrelativity.com/
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

IrOnMaN
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x2m
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

x2m
Banned User
Sure, the site is not about the convexity or concavity of earth, but about debunking the fundamental base (Relativity) of the convex model. Without the Theory of Relativity of Einstein, you cannot abolish (with supposed contraction of space/time) the scientific results of Michelsen-Morley, Sagnac or Airey's Failure that all concluded strongly that the earth do not spin. If it does not spin, it cannot rotate around the sun, then all measurement of distances (of stars) are wrong etc...the all mainstream model falls as a castle of cards. And the ether exists and without it, most probably, there is no electricity and no magnetism as Tesla sugested.
Besides the speed of light assumed wrongly fixed by Einstein without a frame of reference (just assuming the Maxwell number that omited the frame of reference. No speed of anything can be mesured without a frame of reference - that is the Only 'theory of relatvity' that is correct), the mainstream model never defined with precision: Mass, Energy or Gravity
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
In reply to this post by Big Cave
I've done some research after posting my first post of this thread and agree with Lord Steven that my shadow theory is incorrect initially and now I've edited the first post to reflect what I believe can be tested in real life by everyone.

The Summer solstice is happening on the 21 June! This is the day to prove if the Earth is convex or concave, as illustrated in the first post.

Only those staying above the Tropic of Cancer (23.5 degrees north) can do the test.

For those living below the Tropic of Capricorn (23.5 degrees south), you will have to wait until 21 Dec for the Winter solstice to do the test.

Anyone living between the two Tropics cannot do the test, as the shadow will cast in the same direction for both the Concave and Convex earth models.

Let me know if you think this test is in correct, Lord Steven.....and why so.

Here is the revised first post:
http://welcome-to-concave-earth-forum.70389.x6.nabble.com/How-to-prove-whether-Earth-s-curvature-is-convex-or-concave-td367.html
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Primalredemption
Not sure your reasoning why the shadow on a concave model would be opposite?
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
Primalredemption wrote
Not sure your reasoning why the shadow on a concave model would be opposite?
Due to the curvature, whether concave or convex, and the 23.44 degrees band (north and south) wherein the sun oscillates between.....

Same reason as why those living beyond the Tropic of Cancer will see their shadow cast north while those within the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn will see their shadow cast south. This is true during the day of the Summer solstice, as those directly at 23.44 degrees latitude will see the sun directly overhead at solar noon, with no shadow cast.

Those living below the Tropic of Capricorn will have to wait for the Winter solstice to see the reverse effect.

The Tropics are at latitude 23.44 degrees, same as the tilt of the earth in a heliocentric earth model.

If the Earth is concave and the sun oscillate within the band of 23.44 degrees north and south of the equator, then we will see opposing directions of the shadows when you're beyond the tropics. You can't lie to this, because it is geometry. The shadow does not lie.
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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well i had to spend the last hour testing it out, bigcave....... and found out that you are WRONG.



and also like i said before the direction is the SAME for both convex and concave models.



I'm not liking your vain sensationalism thus far.
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
Nothing to do with vanity, but on the day of the Summer solstice (June 21), the Sun is overhead at noon at latitude 23.44 degrees (which is the Tropic of Cancer). At any latitude above the Tropic of Cancer, the shadow will cast NORTH at noon and will cast north-west in the morning and north-east in the afternoon, since the sun theoretically rise in the east and sets in the west.

Your image shows a shadow cast SOUTH-west in the morning and SOUTH-east in the afternoon.

This would mean that you're not modelling it on the day of the Summer solstice.

Also, are you able to try a higher latitude, like 45 degrees latitude, because this is a software model?
On paper, using geometry, I drew out a different conclusion, based on the fact that the circumference of the earth is same for both the concave and convex earth model and that the sun oscillates within the band of 23.44 degrees from the equator, north and south.

Sorry you disagree, but this is my reality.

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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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no dude, the shadow casts southwest and southeast in the morning and evening even if you are north of the tropic, just like my model shows. It was done correctly.
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
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Steve wrote
no dude, the shadow casts southwest and southeast in the morning and evening even if you are north of the tropic, just like my model shows. It was done correctly.
Many thanks for your great effort in clarifying the shadows. If your heliocentric model is correctly depicted, which I believe it has to be, then the heliocentric model that depicts the seasons in some youtube videos and the wiki is wrong and my researches based on them is also flawed.

I'm unable to test out the heliocentric model on the day of the solstices as I do not live beyond the Tropics and hence I submit to your conclusion, since if my research about the solstices even for the heliocentric model is potentially flawed, how am I in any position to question the shadow direction for the concave earth?

I'll return to my big cave and pray about it.

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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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Big Cave wrote
Steve wrote
no dude, the shadow casts southwest and southeast in the morning and evening even if you are north of the tropic, just like my model shows. It was done correctly.
Many thanks for your great effort in clarifying the shadows. If your heliocentric model is correctly depicted, which I believe it has to be, then the heliocentric model that depicts the seasons in some youtube videos and the wiki is wrong and my researches based on them is also flawed.

I'm unable to test out the heliocentric model on the day of the solstices as I do not live beyond the Tropics and hence I submit to your conclusion, since if my research about the solstices even for the heliocentric model is potentially flawed, how am I in any position to question the shadow direction for the concave earth?

I'll return to my big cave and pray about it.
well anyone can set up the heliocentric model i made. i tilted the earth 23.4 degrees and the sun was directly hitting the tropic of cancer.

but it was a good exercise to do regardless.

tc
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

IrOnMaN
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

IrOnMaN
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Primalredemption
Wow has the great day finally arrived? :)
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

IrOnMaN
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Big Cave
IrOnMaN wrote
I took 4 photos. I wanted to take one last photo at 20:00 p.m but the clouds ruined it for me. I played it safe though and took one at 18:35 p.m. Here are the shadows above the tropic of Cancer on the summer solstice.
Great effort bro! The shadow is pointing North at solar noon (12 noon) at locations above the Tropic of Cancer, just as expected.

(At the Tropic of Cancer, on the Summer solstice, the sun rays is most direct and will not cast any shadow at solar noon).

Here's a great tool that simulates the sun rays at different locations on earth.

Appreciate your diligence and great effort, bro!
It clears up a lot of guesswork, since I need someone who stays above and beyond the Tropic of Cancer to verify the direction of the shadow through real personal experimentation, as I do not stay anywhere near such latitude.

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animations/coordsmotion/sunsrays.html

Sun's Rays Simulator

At Summer solstice (21 Jun), the sun rays is most direct at the Tropic of Cancer latitude.

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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

IrOnMaN
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Re: How to prove whether Earth's curvature is convex or concave

Steve
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nice job, IM!

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IrOnMaN
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